Spider-Man No Way Home (2021) - Nostalgia Check

On this episode of Nostalgia Check presented by BJ in the Morning, we revisit Spider Man No Way Home to find out if one of the biggest movies of the decade still lives up to the hype.

We break down the biggest moments, revisit the emotional scenes, discuss the fan service, and ask whether nostalgia carried this movie or if it genuinely holds up years later.

We also dig through IMDB and Letterboxd reviews to see what audiences really think, compare those opinions to our own, and give our final verdict.

Does Spider Man No Way Home pass the Nostalgia Check?

Topics include:

• Biggest story moments and scenes
• Fan service vs storytelling
• IMDB audience reactions
• Letterboxd takes
• First impressions revisited
• Final scores and verdicts

Let us know your rating in the comments and tell us if this movie still works for you years later.

#SpiderMan #SpiderManNoWayHome #Marvel #MCU #MovieReview #Podcast #NostalgiaCheck

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Um let's make up instead of BJ in the morning. We're gonna get our Tier King with Spider Man and no wake up. Let's go. Welcome back to PJ in the morning where we put our nostalgia to the test with first time watches, rewatches, and we're gonna see what holds up. And this is your favorite during the podcast with even dirty takes on movies, TVs, and pop culture.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

You're just throwing all the all of them in there. What was our first intro? Do you remember? We didn't have one.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

No, we just we just jumped right in. We just jumped right in like we're gonna do right in today. And I'm Juan. I'm Brendan. And thank you for coming back.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yeah. Thank you for joining us. Joining us on this uh Endeavor. Uh Endeavor sounds like it's a chore journey. No, I feel like Endeavor's is pretty good. Oh, you mean this is difficult for us? Yeah. It takes a lot of work for us. Yeah. We just sit around and watch movies all day. Sure. We don't have kids. You got kids? One. Two?

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Three. Shit. Where'd you get them? Technically, I have two cats. Which means I have three kids. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

No. You say that. I just pissed off a lot of people who call their cats their pets or their kids, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:30

My cats have been my kids since they were my kids. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

No, let's go, let's get into this movie though. Uh we spun the wheel last episode and we landed on 2011. Tw 2021. Yeah. Which wasn't that long ago. But boy, did we see a lot of movies in 2021.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Yeah, I mean, it was kind of hard to pick uh a movie. Because we saw a lot. And we saw most of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

But we also figured with Spider Noir coming out and Spider-Man Brand New Day coming out soon. We picked Spider-Man No Way Home today.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Why not? It's hard to go into like the 2020s era and say that it's nostalgic.

SPEAKER_05 2:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

But this movie I feel like hits the nostalgia factor.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

I think so. I wrote, I have some notes for when we get into the movie. As do I. About the nostalgia of this movie. Um, I think it's gonna be a fun discussion. When we talk about Spider-Man No Way Home, this was right after the pandemic. The world's coming back together little by little. Marvel didn't put anything out for a whole year. That's insane that they could get away with it. The entire year. And then they dropped this. This was like a big follow-up to Endgame. Like a huge moment. Like, we don't need to talk about Black Widow or the TV shows at all during this time. We don't need to talk about any of those. Um, but this movie was was something special, right? It was exciting. It was the the third Spider-Man movie for the second time. Because Spider-Man 3 movies are exceptionally difficult to make, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Spider-Man 3 movies are where you're gonna put the nail in the coffin for that Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Except for our boy Tom Holland, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Uh they put the nail in the coffin again for our old two Spider-Mans. Right. Uh this movie is five years old now, so it's like get over it if if you haven't seen the spoilers. If you haven't seen this movie yet, that's your fault. Why don't we get into some details about this movie?

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Before you do that, Brenda. Okay. Uh you threw off McGroove. I'm sorry. Before you do that, we we got, you know, some people coming in on uh Apple Podcasts. Yeah, shout out to Apple Podcasts. Um I feel like those people should give us a five-star review or a review.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Just yeah, give us a review.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

We read them all. And maybe they can go follow us. Um oh yeah, like on Instagram at Instagram at BJ in the morning underscore, or on TikTok at BJ in the morning podcast, or on YouTube at BJ in the morning podcast.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Um, but also you can just find us on any of your podcast listening apps. Go ahead and like if you're over on Spotify, leave us a comment. We read all the comments, we respond to all the comments on Spotify. Shout out to Music Lopez, who's always over there leaving a comment on new episodes. It's really fun. We haven't shouted Music Lopez out in a while. Right. Um, and then over on YouTube, we do post these videos uh and the audio only. So if you use uh like YouTube music or anything, podcasts are included in that. Um but yeah, we we like five-star reviews, those are fun. Um so you could drop us a review, let us know how we're doing. We do read them all, the good ones, the bad ones, not on the podcast. Um just behind the camera, I guess we read them while it's off. Um and we talk about them and we see what we can do to uh to make the show better for you guys and for us. So that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Because we love this. We've been doing this for three years. We love this. Wait, stomping.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

We've been doing it for three years, and then we did it for a whole year four years before that. So uh we love this.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

This is our scheduled hangout times um because we're dads and um we live on two different sides of the city, right? And we both have full-time jobs and all that shit. Uh, but we also want to just talk about movies and how they make us feel, uh, and see if movies hold up from the from our past. I love it. Because we like a lot of movies, but are a lot of movies good? Or do we just like them because we saw them when we were kids?

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

But also 2021, we were not kids.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Yeah, we're gonna have to watch the Super Mario Brothers uh live action someday. One of these days someday.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Someday we will. Because you love that movie.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

I loved that movie, but you know you don't now, and I know that it sucks. I know that it's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

But you know what movie might have sucked or might be great? Spider-Man No Way Home. Spider-Man No Way Home. Let's talk about Spider-Man Home. Why don't we talk about it? Um, so uh again, like we say, it came out in 2021. Um, two hour 28 minute runtime. That's honestly, didn't even notice. No, didn't even notice. We have to bring it up now until we don't have to bring it up anymore. Yeah. Now we did complain a lot about long ass run time at the beginning of this project, right? Um yes. So now I really feel like when we do like a awards special at the end of the year or something, we're gonna do a shortest runtime or or like um best pacing or some shit, like or worst pacing, the slowest paced movies. Um, because it's a pacing issue, it's not a time, a runtime issue.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

I do have to say that in regards to the the runtime and the pacing, I do feel like this movie suffers a little bit from from the second screen nature that we have talked about recently.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Because once you get to the to the final act of this movie, it's go, go, go, go. Yeah. And I loved it. I mean, like once you get there, there's nothing wrong with this movie at all. Uh the majority of my issues with this movie, which we'll get into, is all in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

I have issues throughout.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Really?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah, and alright, we'll get there. I we both like this movie. When we picked it, I think we both messaged each other on the side, and we don't usually talk about movies like we don't text about the movies we watch on the show, except for the ones that we have seen, because it's like, duh, we've seen them, we know what how each other feel about it. But I just remember texting you after I watched it the other day and went, this movie fucking slaps. Like it is so good. And I watched it again this morning before we recorded, and I have almost the same opinion that this movie slaps, but I have a lot more to say than just that. Yeah. Um for sure. So yeah, pacing is a thing in this movie. Yeah. Um, the tagline is with Spider-Man's identity now revealed, Peter asks Doctor Strange for help. When a spell goes wrong, dangerous foes from other worlds start to appear. Um, I think they should just say other dimensions, because it's not technically other worlds. The multiverse. The multiverse. But other than that, it's a pretty good synopsis, I think.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Uh over on IMDB, 8.1 out of 10. Shit. That's pretty good. Metascore 71. Uh, top cast, Tom Holland.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Zendaya.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Benedict Cumberbatch.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Uh Jacob Battalon. Yep. John Favreau.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Jamie Foxx.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Willem Defoe.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Alfred Molina. Yep. Benedict Wong.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

That's all it says at the top because they don't want to spoil anything.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

And I know all of those people.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Tony Revalori.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Uh Marissa Tomei. Yep. Give it up, Marissa Tomei.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

She was at Comic-Con last year. We didn't see her. No.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

I I saw her, but we didn't see her. You know? I saw her. I walked by her when I'm when I met Simon Pegg. I was looking straight at her. You were still you were drooling. I was waiting to make eye contact. I like wiped drool off your chin. Andrew Garfield's in this. Did you know that? I I and Toby McGuire. Can you believe that? They're in this?

SPEAKER_03 9:31

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Hannibal Burris makes a makes an appearance again from the last two Spider-Mans, Martin Starr, JB Smoove. J.K. Simmons is here as J. Jonah Jameson, which we saw at the end of the last one. Beautiful. Charlie Cox as Matt Murdoch makes an appearance. Beautiful. Directed by John Watts, written by Chris McKenna, Eric Summers, based on Stanley and Steve Ditko's work. Again, we have an 8.1 on user reviews for IMDB. But let's start with a four out of 10 stars. Sure. That's a rough, that's a rough review. That's very rough. Sad and mindless 2.5 hours. I feel sad to be living in a time where a movie like this can get high ratings. This movie is for low attention span, adrenaline immune viewers, which unfortunately there are more and more of. Unless you are a group of teenagers looking for a night out, I would not recommend this movie at all.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Um, it's two and a two hours and twenty eight minutes. Not two and a half.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Nine out of ten. Emotionally devastating edition. That's what the movie is.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

This movie isn't just about multiverses and cameos, it's about sacrifice, loss, and what it truly means to be Spider-Man. Yes, we all screamed when Toby and Andrew appeared, but what really hit hardest was the ending. Peter giving up everything. Not just his friends, not just his love, but his entire existence. The idea that no one remembers him, not MJ, not Ned, not even Happy, is honestly one of the cruelest, most powerful moves the MCU has ever pulled. It's quiet, cold, and permanent. And Peter, he doesn't get angry, he doesn't undo it, he just accepts it. Because he knows being Spider-Man means putting others first, even if that means walking through life completely alone. The pain is subtle, but it's there. And that's why future of Peter is different. Not broken, but scarred, mature, and infinitely more alone.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

But I love that because like the way they brought in Iron Man, right? I mean, uh uh Spider-Man was Iron Man 2.0. Yeah. Iron Man's Protege. He had all the suits, he had all the tech. And now, like, how are you gonna get your classic Spider-Man friendly neighborhood? Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah, and that's definitely something I want to talk about when we get to like our reviews and our feelings about the movie and everything. Because a big problem we had that we've talked about a lot with these three Spider-Man movies is the Iron Man of it, right? It is he's not Spider-Man, yeah. He's Iron Spider the entire time. He's got this high-tech suit, he's not doing shit, he's not even aiming his web shooters, it does it for him. Yeah, you know, like it's got a kill mode on it. Spider-Man doesn't kill. You know what I mean? Yeah, um, and I love the fact that he does use it to just punk out some some crooks, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:23

But Spider-Man was always broke, he was always like trying to make rent and then sell his pictures of himself as Spider-Man to be able to pay rent and uh washing his clothes at the laundromat, which we saw a clip of that in the new in the new Spider-Man, in the brand new day trailer. But I mean that's like a fresh start on how we're gonna see uh a comic accurate Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

So I saw somewhere that the best thing about the trilogy that we got was that it turned the trilogy, uh like the Tom Holland trilogy into Spider-Man's origin story because he is Spider-Man at the end of this movie more than he's ever been Spider-Man in the last three movies, right? So I think Brand New Day is gonna feel like the most Spider-Man Spider-Man we've ever Spider-Man's. Let's do one more IMDB review. Sure, let's do it. Uh this one's from 2021. Loved every second. This Spider-Man is really fantastic. It captivated me right from the start, and I was entertained every second. There's adventure, friendship, team spirit, love, empathy, and brotherhood. The people in the cinema clapped and cheered multiple times at the appearance of key characters and at a big hint of what the future holds for Spider-Man. I loved every second of it. That was something that was truly amazing about this movie was seeing it in the theaters. Like we said, we saw it a couple times that first opening weekend, and every time I left the theater, I just was happy, like hit just as hard every single time. I'm and I want to say happy and like not emotionally, like, hey yeah, woo! I was happy with what happened. That even sounds bad because of all the darkness in this movie, but it was this might be my second favorite Spider-Man movie, and it's second because of nostalgia, 100%, you know? So because you can't beat Spider-Man 2. Like, it can't beat Spider-Man. Come on, no one can, no one can touch it until this next one. Watch it, watch. It might be it might be the one we need, you know? Yeah, yeah, seeing this movie in the theater was like a one of the best times I've had in a movie theater.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Like, even more than endgame.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

I mean, so like even though people like get all the deleted and stuff and they're spoiling the movie for us, they did it in a way where it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

And like seeing the old Spider-Man villains still hit, seeing Toby and Andrew show up still hit. And I don't think I've ever felt so much happiness in my soul by seeing Andrew Garfield onto the screen in Spider-Man suit again. Yeah. And needless to say, Toby Maguire also. Yeah. Uh, I feel like I was happier about Andrew just because he was done so dirty. Yeah. You know, he they just cut him off and they had plans for a Sinister Six movie and all this stuff, and he was like really excited for it. He loves the character. He truly loves the Spider-Man character.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

They gave up on Garfield to make Morbius.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

To make Venom 3. Yeah. To make Madame Webb. Madam Fucking Webb. Jesus Christ. But you know what we like to do over here when we get past the IMDB reviews? We like to go over to Letterboxd. The Wild Stallions, right? The Wild West. The Wild Wild West of the Wild Reviews. The Wild Wild Web shooters over here today. The um the Peter Tinglers. The reviews that got sucked into a portal with Doctor Strange while he was dangling over the Grand Canyon for hours. That's where we're going. Letterbox, 3.8 out of 5. I have a few reviews here. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_04 16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

All right. Three and a half stars. We're starting a little mid. Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing, even if it breaks Peter Parker's heart. Yeah. No Way Home is the best MCU Spider-Man trilogy. There was a long pause there. It is. Look, this No Way Home is the best Spider-Man MCU Spider-Man trilogy. It's another line. I pulled a Ron Burgundy right now. It's the best trilogy because it's the only film where Peter actually faces the consequences of his actions. True. True that. True that without having everything handed to him, and I like the exploration of Peter trying to help the villains instead of leaving them to their fate. Spider-Man vs. Green Goblin's fist fight in the apartment building is one of the best Spider-Man fights ever. I can't wait to tell them about that scene. This one's from 2021. My favorite part is when the whole theater suddenly cried out, We want Kirsten Dunst. We want Kirsten Dunst in complete unison. Two stars. Doctor Strange. These villains must be stopped. Peter Parker. I could fix them. I could fix them. Um I could fix them. Um let's see. We got uh three and a half star. Kevin Feige finally realized you're never going to do a villain as good as Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin. And he just went, fuck it, bring him back. Bring him back. Four and a half. You know, I'm something of a Spider-Man fan myself.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Four stars. Never in a million years would I have predicted that Andrew Garfield to Peter Parker would be the best character in this movie. Five stars. The whole theater erupted. Y'all know when. This one came out in 21, so they didn't put any spoilers in here.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Sure do.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I can't breathe. This was absolutely phenomenal. Best film of the year. I wept when Andrew saved MJ and was talking about Glenn. I swear to god, I'm not okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

This one's just a heart. Fuck you, Jake Gyllenhaal. You did this. Okay, last one. Y'all remember the scene in Ratatouille where Anton ate Ratatouille and was transported back to his younger self? That was me, except replace Ratatouille with Willem Dafoe tearing shit up. And that's the letterbox reviews. Uh yeah. Beautiful. I think those are pretty, pretty perfect reviews. So, Juan, this is about the time that we're gonna jump in and break down the plot of this movie. What you what you say? I say let's fucking go. Spider-Man, No Way Home opens at the same place that we left off at the end of Far From Home. With Mysterio revealing Peter Parker's identity. Right. Uh it's pretty important. Pretty important. It's a big deal. Um, so everyone in the world learns that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Peter's life begins to fall apart. He's gotta deal with a lot of stuff from this moment on. I want to point out the first 20 minutes of this movie is all Peter dealing with legal issues, media attention, his friends being affected, and their college plans getting ruined, all because he is Spider-Man and the conspiracy against him murdering Mysterio. So the central problem that we are brought to at the very beginning of this movie is that Peter wants his life back. Yeah. Because everything was fine up until this point.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

He had his life exactly where he wanted it, and then Mysterio fucked it up.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Fuck you, Jake Dylan Hall.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Um yeah, I mean, this whole first bit of this movie is so fast and it works so well because he you feel the pressure of him running away from the media. Shut the fuck up. This is what I was gonna say from the running away from the the, I don't know, the cops or whoever. There's no cops after him. Either way, he's trying to get back home. Happy Mayor having issues, uh just a whole bunch of stuff that adds to the stress of what's going on. Yeah, and then we get our first cameo Matt Murdock with Matt Murdoch. Matt Murdoch. Yep. This is the first time we've seen him since Netflix dropped the Daredevil show.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Right. And we we didn't know they were bringing him back for anything. Amazing. And I I feel like it stayed a secret, right? This cameo stayed a secret, it didn't leak. Yeah, because everyone was more excited about Andrew and and Toby, right? Right. Uh, so this was like a huge moment, right? Um, I do want to bring up before we we move past it, is just how fast everything is. The first 20 minutes of this movie feels like a montage.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

And like you were saying, you feel the stress and the anxiety that Peter must be going through. And not just Peter, but MJ and Ned and May and Happy, right? All the shit they're going through. This movie does not give you one single second to take a breath.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I feel like you're exhaling the entire time until it gets to the Matt Murdoch scene.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

And that's when you finally go, Oh, okay, we're good.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

And when he catches the brick that comes through the window, you're like, Oh, it's he's still Daredevil. He's Daredevil. Like obviously bringing like Charlie Cox was great. We needed him. He's the best daredevil. I'm just, I think we we are in agreement here.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

I want to talk about damage control. As soon as they come back in the picture and they're like pushing pushing Peter around and pushing his friends around, they they speed up the process even more. And the the guy who plays like the main DOD guy that we've seen before, right? This wasn't the first time we've seen him. He was in a show. Um I think he's a great comedic relief. Uh he's very snarky, very cocky. He's gonna get away with whatever he wants as the head of this department of the the department of damage control. Uh I do like how he manipulates every single person quickly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

I want to point out that especially Ned, right? Yeah, he messes with Ned.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

You're this guy in the chair. Half my guys are guys in the chair. But I want to point out that when he talks to MJ, Ned, and May, he 100% lays out the problems that they have because they know Peter's Spider-Man. Right away, if you pay attention, because I the he's set up to be the asshole in this part, right? You don't want to like him, you don't want to listen to him. You're rooting for Peter's friends and family, right? But he tells like MJ and Ned, like, oh, you're accomplices to the murder of Mysterio. He tells Aunt May, you put a child in danger. You let him do this, so you're child endangerment. These are things that are horrible to be. But Peter doesn't hear these. So Peter thinks at this point in the story, he's just thinking about himself. Yes, he cares about his friends and everything that's going on for them, but everything he wants right now is more minor compared to the overall and I feel like he was like that in all the movies he's appeared in so far.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Because, like, like you said, yes, he likes it, he loves his friends, he loves Aunt May. He'll do anything for that. But he's always doing something that benefits himself. Always. Um he's always thinking about like it's just like almost like selfishness in a way, but like with a big heart.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

You know, I think it's more carelessness at this point.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Carelessness.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Like he's not understanding the repercussions of being Spider-Man yet because he hasn't gone through what he's gonna go through in this movie. Right. Uh, so I think starting the movie out right at the end of the last one, doing this montage to get us caught up to where we need to be in the story is done so well. Uh, I hate Flash Thompson in this. I'm just saying they they have ruined Flash Thompson from the first one to this one so much uh that he doesn't it just doesn't make sense to me. Right. I hate his hair in this movie, by the way. Yeah, I just hate Flash Thompson's hair. After all this this goes on, Peter, MJ, Ned don't get in the college they're trying to get into because they know Peter Parker, who is Spider-Man. So, what's the first thing that Peter decides to do? He goes to Doctor Strange.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Doctor Strange.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yeah, to cast the spell to make everyone forget that he's Spider-Man. Because that's what you would do. But during all this, Peter keeps trying to change the spell. Uh the spell breaks reality and starts pulling people in from other universes into Peter One's world. I I hate this is one of the moments where I now have an issue with this movie. A when he goes to the Sanctum Sanctorum, Doctor Strange's wig looks so bad. It is not, it's not even funny. Like it looks so horrible. Uh, but also I think anything with Doctor Strange is where a majority of the rewrites happened. Because in every moment, Doctor Strange has different, like a different motive to why he's helping Peter. He when we first meet him, he's very cold, standoff. He's like, I'm not gonna help you. But then all of the sudden he's like, wait a second. We saved the world together. We did that, and then I'll do anything for you. And then he goes, they go downstairs and he starts doing the runes of kaka.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Which uh Wong warns him that's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah, but he's like, whatever, you're the fake sorcerer. I've done this before. Uh, you remember the full moon party at Commentas? No, exactly. Uh, but that Doctor Strange versus the let's go downstairs and cast a spell, Doctor Strange, have completely different like intentions. The way he talks to Peter upstairs versus downstairs, completely different. He goes from like a guy who's kind of annoyed that you're asking him, but he's willing to help, to I'm pissed off that I'm helping you. The way that he keeps yelling at Peter to stop changing a spell when all Peter's doing is talking. And he immediately goes from call me Steven to call me sir. Yeah, it feels wrong. When you watch it now, it's like a totally different strange.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

Uh-huh. And which the strangeness downstairs is the strange that we expect to see, right? Right. Because he didn't, he doesn't show this level of carelessness, even in the first movie, not even that much. I mean, of course, like when he's in the first Doctor Strange movie, he's doing his little montage of of learning and becoming a sorcerer. Then he, yeah, he's a little careless. But uh we've seen him become sorcerer, sorcerer supreme, we've seen him do things on a more serious level.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

We've seen him make sacrifices, and I feel like he wouldn't have fucked up this spell.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

So my I the first time I watched this, I'm like, that's not Doctor Strange. But it is, it is just a rewrite, Doctor Strange, because they did have to do so many rewrites on this movie.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Um, but I I did the thing where they're like, we need Doctor Strange to be a little more lighthearted in this moment of need for Peter.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yep. But then when we say Doctor Strange later, it's another different Doctor Strange. And then at the end, it's a completely different. It's back to the I care for you, I'm here for you. I feel bad about this.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Which in that situation didn't bother me. But like at the beginning of the movie, I see what it's like.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

It's just weird. It feels it's like whiplashy almost, you know, like, oh, you're cool. Oh, you're not cool. Oh, you're cool again, you're not cool. It's just it's very weird. Um, but Peter's intentions are good in this moment, uh, but it creates the disaster that is the rest of the movie, right? So villains start arriving from other universes. Uh, the villains from previous Spider-Man movies, like Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Electro, Sandman, Lizard. Uh, and Peter, he meets Doc Ock on the bridge. And this is when he realizes that he is Doc Ock from a different dimension. Their fight scene's pretty fun. I I feel it's a little weird because there are moments where I can feel that he has never fought Doc Ock before, right? And then there are moments where they needed to establish the Spidey senses way more than they have for him to be good at this fight.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Um, especially without the suit. Right. The suit's offline.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Right. Yeah. Um, but it's still nanotech that takes over Doc Ok's suit and he can control it like it's a Bluetooth speaker.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Deo says Deus Makana.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Deosex Akana. Deo says Arcana. Akana. Doc Akana. Ah, yeah. Come on, dude.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

I was thinking spider. Aracana. Aracana.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Let's move on. We're not good at this. We get the little introduction of Doc Awk. We see Green Goblin Shadow in the smoke, badass. Uh, then he meets Sandman out in the Sandman. Sandman. He's Sand. He meets Sandman out in the wilderness. Why the fuck are they out in the woods? Sandman and Electro out in the woods?

SPEAKER_04 29:11

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

It's just to get that dope ass shot of him swinging in the sunset with the trees. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

And also, like the way Sandman acts in this area, in this part of the movie. I don't like sure they had some sort of mutual understanding at the end of Spider-Man 3 uh back then. But it wasn't like I'm gonna save your life now because you let me go. You let yeah. It's just you let me blow off into the sense of it. That wasn't where they left off, really.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

But also, I want to point out here that Sandman and the Lizard should have just not been in this fucking movie. I hate that they kept them in the lizard and sandman form, and I get the lizard is from for most of the time and everything like that, but also uh making the Sandman stay in Sandman form the entire movie because you couldn't get the actor, you could have just made him someone else, like a different villain, or just in the multiverse, just not had him, yeah, or play into the multiverse and like tease that there could have been another Spider-Man we never see by just having a random dude be Flynn Marco, right? That would have been fun, it would have been fun, like to just have that speculation where it's like we know that there's other universes, we're just not gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

I mean, Electro had a fresh ass haircut out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

I we're not if we were talking Amazing Spider-Man, we were talking Amazing Spider-Man. What they did to Electro, give him a makeover. I like that they poke fun at it in this movie, but I hate the makeover thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

He should still look the same. Well, they pulled they it's implied that they're pulled from the moment they died. The moment that right before they died.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah. So when do you get a haircut? Exactly. That fade? No. We get a lot of comic relief. There's a lot of back and forth between Peter, MJ, Ned, all these villains that are being brought in, but we don't see Green Goblin just yet. So we get the Green Goblin scene where he is flying around in the smoke and he's doing his laugh and everything like that at the on the bridge. And then the next scene, he's in an alleyway talking to the mask, doing the back and forth smeagle uh golem thing, right? Yeah. And he breaks the mask and then goes to feast to meet Aunt May, and he's acting like an old homeless dude just came in to warm his feet by the fire, um, eating soup with a blankie on. Um, but he's still A, he's still wearing green and purple. Introduction of the purple from the comics, great touch.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

But he's acting like scared, sad Norman Osborne, which he never acted like that in the first Spider-Man movie. Yeah. He was never scared, ever.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Unless he was doing it on purpose, right, to trick people.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

So is he tricking Spider-Man from the start? Because the next big important moment in the movie is Peter decides he's gonna save everyone.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

He's gonna save all the villains. He because he learns that they are plucked out of the space right before they die, and he finds out that they all died fighting Spider-Man from different worlds, different dimensions. So he wants to save them and change them before sending them back. And Doctor Strange is like, nah, bitch, and they have a fight.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

We're gonna send them back, and they fight.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah, and Doctor Strange is immediately pissed off from the from the get-go, and they have this really fun interdimensional fight into the mirror dimension, and there's all these cool spirals and everything, and Spider-Man uses math to beat magic.

SPEAKER_04 32:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Um, the fight is fun, but literally doesn't need to be in the movie. Yeah. The best part about the fight is when Spider-Man gets pushed out of his body, and he's in the astral projection phase, yeah, and you see the fucking tingle, the the spidey sense like in the comics above his head, and it's like my favorite touch.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

So the fight didn't need to be there, but it was a way to get Doctor Strange out of the way so Peter can do what Peter needs to do. But does Peter really need to fix them if he's gonna if they're gonna go back to the moment right before they die?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

No, because this movie doesn't establish exactly when they're pulled from before they die. Is it like for Green Goblin? Is it right before his glider impales him? Also, where'd the glider come from? Right. If he wasn't on his glider, he wasn't on his glider right before he died because it was hovering behind Toby outside. Right. So when do you get the glider? When do you get all his pumpkin bombs? Where did all these come from? It doesn't. I understand Doc Ock because him and his arms are one and the same now. They're one entity. All the other supervillains that come in, they are all just their their people.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

They they don't change, they just disarm them, I guess, in a way.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah. But with Norman, he's got it, he's got the fake super soldier serum that because basically that's how any supervillain becomes a supervillain in an MCU is because they're trying to be Captain America. They're trying to be Captain America, right? Uh, but they have the fake super soldier serum in him that made him insane. So he can't he can be cured, sure, right? I'll give him a pass. And especially when they introduce Toby later and are they're like, I've thought about this for years. I'm like, yeah, it's Peter Parker. He's one of the smartest people alive. Yeah, he would come up with something. Um but again, my problem though is that Green Goblin, is he is he hustling this entire time? If he is, what's the point? What's his goal? My my theory though is he knows he's gonna die because he's also one of the smartest people alive, right? In the in this Spider-Man movie, yeah, he's a scientist, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

He says the line I'm a bit of a scientist myself, yeah, something of a scientist myself.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

And you're like, cool, fan service, awesome, love it. But I I'm like, does he put it put it together that if he just plays nice until the moment he doesn't have to, that he can survive? Yeah, I don't it's not explained, and then he just goes psycho again and becomes a green goblin again. That's fine, yeah. But the playing nice for this long, he's he didn't do that. Yeah, I get it. That's what I that's a problem I have, yeah, with the Green Goblin.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

The only problem I have with the Green Goblin, because every fucking thing else that the Green Goblin could have just been psycho the whole time making Spider-Man's job a lot harder. That could have worked too.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Was he in Electro's ear? I don't know, maybe. Was he in Sandman's ear? Was he trying to convince them to be mad be bad too? We don't know.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

But, anyways, so Peter gets all these guys into uh Happy's apartment, which is a great place to bring all these guys to. And this brings me to like one of the best fight scenes in any Spider-Man movie. I'm gonna say even, I'm gonna go on on a limb here on a branch. I'm gonna I'm gonna say it's the best fight scene in a Marvel movie. Um, when he so they they give Doc Ock his cure and it works. And you see Alfred Molina turn back into Otto Octavius, right? He's no longer Doc Ock. He's Otto Octavius, he's in control of the arms, the arms aren't in control of him. Um I love that moment, that shift. I think he's such a great actor that the emotion that you see in his face when he's like, it's so quiet. But in that silence is when Peter's Spidey Sense. I'm gonna call it Spidey Sense. I hate Peter Tingle. Yeah, I'm gonna you heard it here. Peter Tingle's dumb. Just call it Spidey Sense when when the Spidey Sense goes off. I you feel the panic and you see it on his face. He knows something horrible is about to happen. What is it? What's horrible that's about to happen, right? We never really learn. It's just the moment when everyone but Otto goes back to being just the normal villains that they are. It's like everyone lost faith in Peter or they got scared because they know that their power is gonna be taken away from them. So that could be the only pass I could give for Green Goblin switching back into this, is like he wants that power. He's always wanted that power. That's the main motivation for him taking the serum in the first movie, right? So but this fucking fight scene, man, it's intense, it's brutal.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

And um with the Green Goblin just laughing in Peter's face as Peter is going to town on it with his fist.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

He's still pulling his punches, you can see it, right? He's still not full because when we see him again later, it's even worse. Like the strength behind his punches, and that's the thing with Spider-Man, right? Is he's always pulling his punches. Spider-Man is a lot stronger than most Marvel heroes, right? And he pulls his punches because with good power.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Every time he gets punched, he's just laughing harder and harder.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

That shot, dude, where he just flicks his head back, and then the smile's just bigger and bigger, and it's just pure Willem Defoe at his like most faux. Yeah, not Willem DeFriend. He's no longer Willem DeFriend, he is now full-on defoe.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

But at this point, Peter is distracted, and that leads to the death of Aunt May. Yeah. And that shit hits hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Uh, I still get a little teary-eyed anytime that scene happens. I think it's the most impactful um Aunt May, Uncle Ben situation, right? Because we already know like Uncle Ben's already already gone in the in the Tom Holland Spider-Mans.

SPEAKER_04 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

So we we never got the with great power, there must also be great responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

But maybe he didn't have that with Ben. You know what I mean? Maybe he didn't grow up with Ben.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Yeah, not not in the same way as May, right? And I think the dynamic of her being younger than traditional Aunt Mays in the comics or the last couple movies might have had something to do with that. Um, because Ben, Uncle Ben is his dad's brother.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

So he's just closer with May now. I think a lot of that has to do with Peter's younger in this than he is in the last ones, even though end of high school for both of them. But he was a freshman, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Yeah. I mean, uh uh attaching to a motherly figure is is more common. Common, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

But his relationship with Anime is definitely strong. So when she when Green Goblin causes her death, uh this is like Peter loses everything. Um and I'm really happy we get a scene like in between this one and the the reveal of the other Spider-Man's. But I hate the CG New York City in the raining shot where he's standing in front of J. Jonah Jameson's face on the big monitor.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

The it looks like video game cutscenes, but the shot where it's like the close-up on his face in the rain, and you have like the blues and the reds that mimic his suit, and he's just crying and he's bloody and like beat up and everything might be one of the most beautiful shots in a in a movie. Like it would it, it's up there. You know, we we once talked about our favorite frame of a movie, like something we would frame on a wall. Yeah, this I wouldn't frame it because it's so sad, but it's so beautiful, this shot. But then it goes right back to this white shot, and it is the ugliest CG New York you've ever seen. And I'm I'm mad about it. So this is basically when Peter's like at his lowest point, right? And this is the moment I think he really becomes Spider-Man, and he doesn't know it yet. He doesn't he doesn't know that he's Spider-Man yet.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

He doesn't know what he's going through, he doesn't know what to do at this point. All he knows is he wants to murder the Green Goblin.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

He is done.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

He's not messing, he's not pulling punches, he's not playing around. No, no more pulling punches, my guy.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

But then, you know, we we have the cutaway with Ned and MJ, and they're just waiting around trying to hear back from Peter. And you're like, hey, we're just we're just gonna find him.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

I want to point out the thing I this is a this is something I fucking hate in this movie now. I want to tell you how I would rewrite the scene very quickly. Say with me, are you ready? Very quickly. I know you're looking at the time, so are you they maybe, but are you ready? I'm ready. So they're sitting down at the table with Ned's grandma walking around, pacing around, right? And all they say is, We need to find Peter. I wish we could find Peter. No one's hands move like that. No one does this. So, what I would have done for those listening, uh, Ned just waves his hands in perfect circles when he says, We should find Peter. I want to find Peter. No one does that naturally. I think it is the ugliest, most forced thing to get him to do that. What I would say that would have been better, Ned knows how to open the portals. He's seen the motion because after he does it by accident, he does it perfectly, same form, everything right after. So he knows, but Ned's character would not be sitting there just fiddling with the ring, he would be pretending to open portals. Yeah, he would be in the background walking around, doing the little hand motion, trying to open the portals. Why isn't he? Yeah, it is so fucking stupid. He's just sitting there wearing the ring, he's wearing the ring and he moves his hand in the full 360 circles, and he accidentally opens a portal where Andrew Garfield comes in. And Andrew Garfield is a delight, right? Honestly, it's like I yeah, he is so likable.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

The fact that the the theater is roaring at this point, and so am I. Yeah, don't get me wrong, it does not disappoint. Right. Is it it is Andrew Garfield through and through, like they didn't change a single thing about him.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

It's like they let Andrew do Andrew, and he's still the best Spider-Man suit.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Oh, I love it. Uh I love him.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

And then Toby walks in, just normal clothes, just a guy.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Um, I have I have something I want to bring up about Toby's entrance later on, so we'll save it. But I do want to point out that this scene feels weird, not in a movie theater full of people screaming and cheering. You can feel the pause for applause in this scene. Um, but they team up. The four of them to go find Peter Parker. One.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Yeah, Peter one.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Who should be Peter three.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

Technically, yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

But they made Andrew Garfield Peter Three. Yeah. Which feels like they were just like, fuck Andrew Garfield. And you're like, fuck you for fucking, you know. Um, but they team up, they go meet Peter in his special spot. They all have a special spot. I like that they talk about it, like Empire State Building. Um, what was what was Potobi McGuire's The Chrysler Building? The bank. The Chrysler Building. Oh, okay. The Chrysler Building, the Empire State. So they they convince Peter that what he's doing, his mission, his goals, his morality, everything. They the three of them share that. Um, they all have gone through their Uncle Ben's, their Gwen's, and now Aunt May. And it is a really heartfelt moment. It's really full of strong emotions. All three of them play off each other so well that I wanted more of them interacting.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

But then again, it's another, it's another introduction, probably one of the first introductions of the canon events. Because at this point, Peter one has been through it. He's been through it, and he's like, he's swears up and down that those guys don't know what he's going through.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Oh, you're talking about Tom Holland.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Yeah. Okay. Peter one.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Peter one.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Uh Peter three. Peter one in this movie. And then Peter two and Peter three are they're like, uh yeah, buddy, we do know what you're going through. Dumbass. But the switch in Tom Holland is immediate, which like I get the movie needs to keep going, but I feel like with how angry he was, I don't think it would have been that easy.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

I think that it has something to do with the Spidey Sense and the way that they're connected, which again, I want to bring up something about Toby Maguire later on. Well, let's let's get to that part. Yeah. We can skip the complete utter nonsense that is them in the high school, the high school lab making all these things. There's some fun moments. I really love the interaction with, yeah, my best friend tried to kill me when Ned asked uh Toby Maguire about his best friend. I love that. Um, I like the recreation of the which Peter meme, you know, the appointing meme.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

We're all Peter.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Um, I think that's fun. I wanted more of the interactions, though, when they get to the Statue of Liberty and they're just swapping stories. I am so mad that there's not like a behind the scenes or a deleted scene of them just letting the three of them riff about being Spider-Man. I think it would have been fun to see more of the three Spider-Man sharing war stories, basically, right? So they get all the bad guys to come to the Statue of Liberty, they're gonna cure them because they have all made cures for each and every one of them, and they're gonna cure them, send them all back, and everything's gonna be great. And it's working, the plan's working. We get some really iconic shots of the fight, the three of them not working well together, and then they they're like, guys, we're Spider-Man. Yeah, use your trust your tingle. I hate I hate it. Yeah, I mean, so trust your tingle, work together, communicate.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

And when they have that conversation, and then they all three jump off and they're swinging around, and then one of those Spider-Mans uses their web and flings the other two. Yeah, oh my god, like I dude, I could scream. I could get teary-eyed right now, yeah, talking about it, and then they land, yeah, and they're facing off against all the other and they land in order of when they came out, dude.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Yeah, dude. It is pure nostalgia, nerd gasm, like everything you want. This is you playing with your multiple Spider-Man toys that you've gotten over the years when you're eight years old, you know.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

That is hands down my favorite scene in any movie. Yeah. That right there, right there. Because talking about it, I can feel myself getting like crazy.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Your Peter's tingled.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

Yes, my Peter is tingled and it's not stopping.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Uh, so they they cure Sandman. Uh, I hate this part because they just use the footage of him becoming sand from the movie, but in reverse, and you can it as someone who's seen Spider-Man 3 enough, yeah, you notice it. Like as soon as you see it, you you go, that is exactly the shot of him looking at his hand when he gets turned into sand. Uh they cure Electro, and he kind of just goes, Yep, tapped out. This is it, I'm done. Good to see you, Peter. But I like the interaction with him and Andrew Garfield, and he's like, dude, I thought you were gonna be black. Yeah, and you're like, shit, man. Like maybe there is one out there, and you're and all of us go, uh huh, what duh. Um and then uh they cure they cure the lizard, and they just have these weird shots of of Reese E fans like just looking off into the the sky.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Doesn't say anything, doesn't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Nope, nope, hate it. Uh hate it a lot. Yeah but Donk Oxter still cured, so he comes and helps, but we get the moment where Green Goblin swoops in and knocks everyone off, and MJ falls off, and Peter goes to the catcher, and you're already on the edge of your seat going, this is just like Andrew Garfield and Gwen. Holy shit. And then Green Goblin swoops in and fucking takes takes Peter one. Yeah, and Andrew Garfield jumps into action. And I like everything about this shot until he lands because it looks rubber bandy, like the way that he just you know, and like lands perfectly.

SPEAKER_04 50:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

I it's a little weird, but then you they cut to the like the two shot where they're it's a little closer, and you see Andrew's looking at her and he just starts crying. Yeah. You okay? Yeah, yeah. Are you okay? Yeah, yeah. Fuck. Dude, like it is so are you good? Yeah, you're thinking about it, huh? Yeah, you see it in your head, yeah. Mind's eye or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Yeah, it's emotional, it's very emotional, and it's like a redemption for him. That like we didn't get we didn't get to see him struggle after that uh in another movie.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

We didn't get to see the him in the moment that Tom Holland is now because he talks about it briefly in the movie, right? Uh, when they're having their exchange.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Where he didn't pull his punches. And we we've all wanted to see that Spider-Man, and it's been rumored that that was where the next movie was gonna go, was him losing himself, right? Uh, so, anyways, Green Goblin's attacking, Spider-Man is not holding back. Tom Holland is beating the shit out of this guy, and he's still laughing. Yeah, he's still cracking, cracking jokes while the sky is just like crumbling from all these other dimensions coming in because he blew up the box that held the spell. Doctor Strange trying to trying to save it, and Peter is beating the shit out of Green Goblin until he picks up the glider and tries to kill him. Toby McGuire steps in and Finn tells him no, get stabbed. You're like, fuck. Yeah, that's the nail in the coffin for Toby. Yeah, uh, I love that he goes, I've been stabbed before. Uh but this is the moment where Tom Holland's Peter Parker becomes the Spider-Man, yeah, friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. He knows that killing Green Goblin is not gonna bring back anime. He knows that killing this guy is not gonna make him feel better. But protecting the people around him, the people he loves, just like Toby Maguire just did and has been talking about with him, yeah, is what it is to be Spider-Man that he decides to make the ultimate sacrifice and he tells Doctor Strange to make everyone forget that Peter Parker existed.

SPEAKER_04 52:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

My question with that is does that affect them two Peter Parker's that joined him? Do they go back to their world and no one knows who Peter Parker is? Or does it just affect this world? Because if the spell originally was affecting other worlds and bringing people into this one, does it affect those ones? We'll never know.

SPEAKER_05 52:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

I guarantee we're never gonna get that answer. But Peter in this moment loses everything. And he goes to try to talk to MJ afterwards, and nothing happens. She doesn't recognize him, Ned doesn't recognize him. He gets an apartment downtown, really shitty, tiny apartment. Pure Spider-Man. You know what I mean? Like it is such a shitty apartment. I just want Ursula to come over with cookies from Spider-Man 3. Um, and you see what is giving Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man suit a run for its fucking money. It might be my favorite Spider-Man suit. Part of me thinks we haven't seen enough of it.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

But part of me is still like it's a little too glittery.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Like it's got a shimmer to it that's a little weird. But also it was Christmas time.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

And all the Christmas lights are shining.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

I I wanted the sequence at the end where he's swinging around in the new suit to be a little more uh less shaky, less uh action cannon.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

And a little bit longer, too.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

A little bit longer, a little like I wanted to see him a little bit more. But the suit looks so good with all the colors and the lights and the snow is so we have not really got Spider-Man in the snow.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Yeah, or like in the city, really.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Not this Spider-Man, right? Especially because there's like a whole thing of him being afraid of heights until he gets to the city, right? And then that's the end of the movie. Yeah. I mean it's an emotional roller coaster, it is pure nostalgia bait.

SPEAKER_03 54:20

I would say like that last 30 minutes of this movie just like really sends it home for me.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

There's no way home though.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

But it sends it, sends it home. Um, yeah, and I think like we bring back the the pacing from the beginning of the movie almost until they're at the high school, and then it slows down, but then it's back up again.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah, it's got dips, it's got the dips, and you need those to to catch your breath for what's happening next. And I think there's three, there's a three-act structure here that is so apparent because of these breaks, uh, that when you get to the high school, you know once they leave the high school, it's non-stop. You're gonna, it's a ride until the end.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

So the nostalgia bait in this movie feels just right, I think. But then, like, once they do this in this movie, then all the other movies are trying to do that too. Right. And bring in the old characters from the old versions of that movie, all kinds, you know, like they're all doing it now. And it is a little much, right? And it doesn't feel necessary. It's still cool to see, but it's not necessary.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yeah, I think like Daredevil or Daredevil, um, Deadpool and Wolverine having Chris Evans come back as human torch was funny enough, but I I I was gonna text you this the other day that I've not had a single desire in my body to watch Deadpool and Wolverine ever again since we watched it when it came out, which is weird.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

I don't think I've seen it either. I just I might have seen it once when it came on Disney Plus, and that was it.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

But I've like not had a desire, right? And I think a lot of it's the multiverse of it, is we've had so much multiverse stuff, yeah, that like No Way Home is the perfect blended smoothie. It's a smoothie, man. It's a good smoothie.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

It's strange though, because I do I do like that movie a lot though. You know, like I do like if I were to go watch it right now, you'd have a good time. I would still have a good time and love it, but it's like I don't I don't think about it that much.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Yeah, but this movie, anytime I think about Spider-Man in general, I think of the Insomnia games on PlayStation and this fucking movie and Spider-Man 2. Those are like and Andrew Garfield's suit in the second Amazing Spider-Man. Uh, but this movie, it is like it is blended so well, and it does the multiverse in a in a way that even the problems I've had with this movie, and especially on re-watching it, I I can let them slide a little bit because the movie is fun. Yeah, there's there's some moments where you feel Disney a lot in this movie, but I think it is a Spider-Man movie. Like Spider-Man's for everyone, it's not just kids, it's not just adults. There's a lot of things that are very dark in this movie. There are a lot of things that are very childish in this movie. Flash Thompson's hair.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Um Flash Thompson in general.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

He he's a punk ass bitch in this movie. Uh yeah, like I loved him in the first one. Second one was whatever. This one, bad. But this movie, I think of my favorite scenes. Like my the best scene in this movie is the the switch when Green Goblin takes over. Like as soon as Peter starts feeling it, until like everyone scatters from that apartment is the my favorite scene, right? It's it's until Aunt May's death is the best scene in this movie. Even though Aunt May's death is the worst thing that happens in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

The worst scene in this movie doesn't even compare to how good this scene is. You know what I mean? Everything about this this fight and the brutality and the emotion behind every single punch and seeing Spider-Man like use his webs to like kick him into the ground. Yeah, it's just like things we never seen in Spider-Man movies before. And it's just uh it's the best scene, in my opinion, of this movie.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Yeah, I mean, that and the and the the Spider-Man team up amazing. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

You're amazing. You know what? You're amazing. You know what? You know what's not amazing though? What? What's your least favorite scene in this movie? What's the what's the one thing that just really doesn't hit, especially upon rewatch? Like, do you have anything that stood out before re-watching it? Because before we rewatched it, the best scene immediately was Green Goblet.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

So, yeah, yeah. I mean, like the the best scene for me before re-watching was just the you know, the feeling of seeing Andrew and Toby again enter the into the room, just so electric. Yeah. And like you said, re-watching that now is like okay, it feels a little dead without the crowd, just because they knew it was gonna be crazy at the theater. Right. And they left room for that. So it does feel a little dead, you know, some dead space in there. My least favorite part of this movie before watching was the fact that Peter was trying so hard to begin with to get his friends into MIT. I don't know why that bothered me so much because like we said before, Peter loves his friends, but he never really did like anything for them before this point.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

He was still very young and very I said selfish, you said careless, but I feel like he was a little selfish at times. And like I get it that the movie needs to happen. But there are other reasons that this movie could have happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

Right. And I think uh when I brought up the the Department of Damage Control scene where they're being interrogated and Pete Peter doesn't hear the reason that his friends and Aunt May are gonna be arrested.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:33

I think keeping them out of jail or getting them out of jail from that moment could have been a good reason. Yeah, but to get his friends into college it it's just yeah, it that part fell flat for me from the beginning. Um after rewatching two things. Okay and the MIT thing is still there, but two more things. The the the love triangle with Ned unnecessary. The love triangle and is uncomfortable. What do you mean? Just like Ned third wheeling it on the top of the school high school all the time not necessary for me, and it feels it'd like when they're on the top of the building and he walks in and when they're about to kiss or whatever, which we don't see, we don't really get to see MJ and and Peter be MJ and Peter ever because of Ned. And it makes me uncomfortable. That scene makes me so uncomfortable that I'm like, dude, just get the hint. Get the hint. Yeah, so I feel like that does that's not necessary for this movie. And also, unfortunately, don't come after me. Zendaya's MJ doesn't do anything for me. Right. She's not MJ. Right, and she's Melissa, and and I and I get it, she's not MJ. Yeah, it was a trick, right? But MJ is supposed to be like, not that Zendaya's not beautiful, but like this like beautiful redhead actress with an attitude attitude, uh optimistic, outgoing. Yeah, she is Peter's anchor. Uh-huh. And she falls to the background a lot, especially in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

MJ in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

In this movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

And I think a lot of it too is her attitude is not what we would expect from MJ, right? From Mary Jane Watson. Uh, but I get that they're trying something different. They're trying to, they were trying to go a different way. And I'm interested in what's gonna happen now. I I'm gonna be upfront about the next movie, and I'm already, already iffy about them still having him hang on MJ and Ned. I don't want that. I want him to move on and be Spider-Man and meet Gwen or meet Mary Jane.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

Mary Jane.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Just I understand where he's coming from, but to fall in love with her so fast from the first movie to this one, and now that uh we're on the fourth movie and he's still hanging on, and I get it, like he gave up everything, he just wants her back. I hope that they don't get back together. I don't want them to. I I think that would be a disservice to No Way Home. It would ruin so much of the sacrifice that Peter has has given. Miley's favorite scene in this movie, though, is the introduction of let me backtrack because before re-watching, Miley's favorite scenes were gonna be the school or the laboratory scene where they're all just kind of chatting and everything. I think it slows the pace of the movie down way too much. It's too long. Uh, there's not enough jokes, and there's not enough like Spider-Man talk. Uh, we get hints to them going, you make your own web fluid in your body, and you're like, I love that shit. There's not enough of it, and there's too much of just the like banter back and forth. But I know why it's necessary. Upon re-watching, though, my least favorite scene is the introduction of Andrew and Toby because of the fact that it is built for an audience full of people to scream and yell. I hate that it takes place in a random ladies' dining room.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Uh, I don't like the can you get that cobweb on the ceiling? I think it's stupid. The ceiling isn't that high. It's not that high at all. Like he barely Andrew barely jumped to get up there. To get up there, right? Um, I like the interaction between Andrew Garfield and Toby Maguire. Cool. My biggest thing about this scene, and I I hinted to it earlier. Hinted to it earlier, we're going for an extra long episode. No, no, no, that's not my issue. My issue is Toby Maguire walks out, and Ed's Ned's grandma loses her shit. Uh-huh. She's like so shy, and she's no she's seen him before. She knows him. How? Uh-huh. And then Toby goes, I've seen you guys before. How?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:18

What are they saying? Yeah. What are they doing?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

My theory is just that he is more involved in the multiverse and the spider-verse because it's like a big thing in Spider-Man comics, right? It's like the the web of destiny, like, goes to every Spider-Man, and like we see a lot of that in the across and into the Spider-Ver movies. So we're seeing all those combine. Does Toby's Peter Parker have more to do with that than we know about because we haven't seen him in so long? Yeah. We don't know. But why has he seen them? He knows what they look like. Why does Ned's grandma know what he looks like? Why does he know? That he needs to find Tom Holland.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

Peter One. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

All those questions came into mind when I rewatched that this morning, and I went, I fucking hate the scene now because there's no explanation to why he says any of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:15

And you know what? Like, this is not the first time we've seen a Spider-Man team up, right? Like it's it's been a thing forever. And you know, like even in the in the uh Spider-Man animated series, that is a huge part of the of the show. Right. And maybe, I mean, maybe I feel like if any Spider-Man is going to be experienced enough to uh be a part of some spider secret service or whatever the deal is, uh it would be Toby.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

And Andrew might be on the cusp of it because he's just getting out of, especially now that he's had his redemption moment with MJ. Maybe. And but Peter's been around for a lot of shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:04

But that's the thing. Uh Andrew comes in and he's confused on where he's at. Toby comes in and he's looking for Peter.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

And he's dressed like a youth pastor. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so my did your favorite scene hold up upon rewatch? Obviously. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:22

I mean, yeah, it was the Spider-Man's when they swing each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

No, I as soon as you started talking about it, that's all I was seeing in my head is when he grabs the the web and flings them both ahead of him. I'm like, that is badass. Uh the the Green Goblin fight holds up. Like 100% holds up. Uh, but was there uh sorry, I'm I'm looking at my notes here because we have changed some things, if anyone's noticed. Um, but we've talked kind of about our feelings changing on the movie here or there, right? There's little parts. Um, but did you feel the same excitement on rewatch that you did the first time? Only certain moments.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:58

Yeah. So not necessarily watching it. I wasn't necessarily excited to watch it either because I've seen it so many times.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:08

But then again, it's like there are moments in this movie that still hit like the swinging each other on the by the fucking yeah. That scene does it for me every single time. Every single time.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

I mean, just based on these bits of conversation, the final question that we're we need to start asking ourselves. We haven't been doing it. It's something that we should be doing at the end of our episodes. We're gonna do this before we give our final scores. I think we've done enough for reviewing this movie. We need right, like we've done our thoughts, our final thoughts on this, whatever. But before we give our score out of 10, did this pass the nostalgia test? Is it better? Is it was it better the first time you watched it versus now? Is it still something that you would watch today? Just like if you stumbled across it, would it still be as good now as it was when it came out? What about if you're not a Spider-Man fan? Does it hold up like to someone who might not have been around for Toby or Andrew?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

But for you specifically, does it pass the nostalgia test?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

I say it does, I say it does pass the nostalgia check. It holds up, it's gonna hold up. Um but I also it's hard to s to think that way too, because it is so new still. Right. I mean, five years is a long time, but it's not not that long. Yeah. Um so I think the movie as a whole is not nostalgic, but the nostalgia baked in this movie is what sends it home. Yeah. Uh I think seeing Toby and Andrew and all the other characters is the majority of the nostalgia that I see and feel when I think about this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

And would would you think if you hadn't watched Spider-Man or The Amazing Spider-Man, that seeing this movie would make you want to go back to understand their stories more?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

I would say so. Yeah. Yeah, I would say like if you haven't seen the other Spider-Man movie or like the younger kids who watch this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

I'm thinking like when you show your kid when she's old enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:25

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

Do you where you where are you gonna start?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:27

I would probably start with Toby. You think so? I would go back. Yeah. I think. Because it's it's weird to think about when she's old enough to understand, like, this is what we're watching.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

But I think kids nowadays, younger ones, you know, like I had a five-year-old, he's more into the bright, colorful action stuff that we get in the newer Spider-Mans versus the older ones where they're a little more slow and they're tailored for story direction and where where the story's going. It's hard to say. But when I look at it and like this movie specifically, it is all about nostalgia. It's about bringing those characters back and giving them that final moment that we didn't get with them originally. Yeah. Spider-Man 3 is a mess. It's got really awesome moments, but most of it's a mess. And I don't feel like the end of that movie is where we needed to leave Toby Maguire. The Amazing Spider-Man, we never got that final look at Andrew Garfield being Spider-Man without Gwen.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:26

Yeah. The send-off.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

We we got him like where you could still feel that he's broken at the end of Spider-Man 2, Amazing Spider-Man 2. Where he's about to fight the rhino and he's talking to the kids, and you still kind of feel like he's not all there. We never get anything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

We get his redemption in this one. We get to see that Toby and M, or like Peter and MJ got together. We get those moments. It's awesome, right? So, like that part passes the nostalgia check for me because we get the proper send-off, not only for the heroes, but for the villains. Yeah. So I think I think this one passes, man. Yeah. It passes. For now. We might have to revisit in another five years. Maybe. Uh, but we'll uh we'll see. Uh but Juan, this is the end of the episode. So we need to do the thing that we do at the end of every episode, and that is what is your score out of 10 for Spider-Man No Way Home?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:23

Oh man. It's hard. It's hard because England. I I don't I almost don't want to give any movie a 10.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:38

Right. We got close with The Mummy and Pirates of the Caribbean. And it's like And Shrek.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:46

And and I'm I'm I'm torn because I love this movie so much. But there are parts that we talked about that brings my ratings down. But then the fact that I almost cried twice while talking talking about it today brings it up a lot. And like I said, I'm not gonna go I'm not going ten. I want to, but I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:20

So I'm giving it a 9.75. My first quarter rating. That's crazy. And it's just because of the the nostalgia factor of Toby, Andrew, and the the first time that they've done it in a movie. And how hard those scenes hit for me. Like I said, I almost cried when you talked about I felt like crying when you talked about Andrew saving MJ.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:57

And then I started getting all cra I don't know, even know what I was feeling when I was talking about them flinging each other off the the Statue of Liberty. Talking them about flinging each other?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:12

Jeez. This one's going off the rails, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:15

So that alone, that it makes me feel so much emotion without even watching it, without even currently watching it, brought me from a 9-5 to a 9-7-5. Okay. Because it was a 9-5.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:29

Yeah. And then you brought it up?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:31

Because I almost cried twice. Right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:34

Okay. I don't know if you can tell. I saw it. And if you're watching on Apple Podcasts or on YouTube, you could have seen it too.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:40

You could have almost seen it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:42

So my score for this one. Uh this was tough. Because I really love Spider-Man 1, Spider-Man 2, The Amazing Spider-Man, Parts of Spider-Man 3, Parts of Amazing Spider-Man 2. No Way Home is great. Or uh Homecoming's Great. Far From Home's Pretty Great. Mysterio is my favorite villain from Spider-Man. Civil War is awesome. I'm going to count it because that's when we got introduced to him. Endgame's fine. He's in there. I have to give room for whatever we're giving, getting next from this Spider-Man. Because there was still a lot of Iron Spider kind of attitude in this, right? He's still got the gold suit that I kind of just over at this point. I'm kind of just sick of it. But I think the the leaving room for applause in the theater moments stand out a lot more when you're watching it at home by yourself. I think a lot of the beginning part of this movie has those you weren't really paying attention, so we're just going to tell you what's going on the entire time while showing you what's going on. Kind of annoying. Flash Thompson, fuck that guy. Um but Andrew and Toby coming back and having there's some something off about Toby Maguire's performance in this where it doesn't really feel like Spider-Man and Peter Parker from his movies. He there's something about it where he kind of feels stiff. And I think they make a joke about his back hurting because he feels kind of stiff. But overall, I love this movie. I told you when I watched it the first time, it slaps. When I rewatched it the first time, I was like, this movie fucking slaps. Second time, I wasn't really paying attention the entire time. I was like doing chores, cooking breakfast, whatever. And I was still like, oh, this movie slaps. Uh I'm really sad that Aunt May's gone because Marissa Tomei is so fucking gorgeous. But I'm giving this movie a nine. Nine. Just a nine. Because I want to give wiggle room to whatever we're getting next. But also comparing it to Spider-Man 2, OG Spider-Man, um, I don't think I would rate those much higher if I did rate them higher. But they're on par for me. Where I'm gonna take a break from No Way Home for a while, but I could easily go home right now and watch Spider-Man or Spider-Man 2. And even with like Spider-Noir being out right now, that's that's really fun to see a different version of Spider-Man instead of just Peter Parker all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:18

So I'm giving it some room. I'm gonna say a nine because it's not a perfect movie. It would have been higher if we just based it on nostalgia alone, because I probably would have given it a 10. But after watching it, giving it time, giving it even just five years, I think a nine is where I'm gonna stand. So I'm gonna stay at a nine. No changes, no takes these back. No takes these back, um, and that's that's where that's where I'm gonna stay. All right. How do you feel? How you feeling? You need a breather, huh? I mean You're so emotional.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:50

I I'm a very huge fan of nostalgia. Huge. Yeah. And like I didn't like I'm still on the edge about my rating, but like I love Toby. I loved Andrew. I didn't like the villains that much in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

Especially fucking Lizard and Samuel. But like And Electro, the punk ass.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:21

Like, I'm not gonna change my score. Right, right, right, right. But like I I get where you're saying leave room for for other stuff to the nostalgia in this movie with Toby and Andrew alone is enough for me. To hate the rest of the movie and then just watch the end of it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:43

I I think though, the that they throw a little too much shade on Andrew Garfield at the end of this movie, um, which is why I do have to give it a nine. Like honestly, like thinking about it more. It's like they just give all the praise to to Toby and and Tom, and not enough to Andrew. Andrew's just there. And I think when he said I love you guys, they should have fucking said it back. Um, but I do, I do think my favorite line that that Andrew and and Tom share is when he throws the cure for Green Goblin and he says, nice throw, and he goes, nice catch. And it almost feels like a meta commentary for like you set you set this universe up, man. And I think that's where we should leave our coverage of Spider-Man No Way Home, as it was a nice catch. Yeah. Of course. Fuck, what an ending, dude. Um, so if you're new here, like we said at the beginning, you should do us a favor. Uh leave a five-star review if you're over on one of your podcast listening apps. Uh, you can do it on Spotify, you can do it on Apple, whatever, whatever floats your boat, whatever swings your web, whatever flings your guys, whatever peters your tingle, whatever tingles your peter. Um, and then if you want to check us out over on Instagram, you can do that at BG in the morning underscore. And then on TikTok, we do sometimes post over there still. That's BG in the morning podcast. And then on YouTube, if you want to watch the videos, if you're not on Apple Podcasts where we already have video, you can go to YouTube at BG in the morning podcast. And you can check out all the videos. There's also audio over there if you're using the like YouTube music app or whatever. It's pretty cool that we have all that stuff for you guys to consume. Fun. Brandon.